Following is an interview with Fred Mogubgub originally published in The East Village Other.
On first reading, I found it a little irritating -the inarticulate questions, the stoned replies. Really just the lack of “facts”. Facts are what we look to the archive to provide. Dispelling the need for quantifiable information, there are some great thoughts, especially when it comes to collaboration and business practice.
This is also the only published mention that I’m aware of concerning Dawn Comes.
Some more “facts” about the interviewer’s screening of The Day I Met Zet would have been good. Perhaps he saw it broadcast on WNDT (now WNET-Thirteen) or at the screening where Mogubgub had to physically cover the projection to censure the nudity.
This interview was conducted by East Village Other editor Jaakov Kohn
Fred Mogubgub produced “ZET” and is now producing “DAWN COMES.”
Fred Mogubgub is a man in a state of exstatic [sic] amazement at the full scope of human possibilities.
After years of successful commercial film work, Mogubgub has found his soul and as yet hasen’t [sic] ceased being amazed by his discovery.
It has given him a quality of childish wonderment that so perfectly shields the sharp, observing, directing and controlling eyes of its beholder.
To talk with Fred Mogubgub is a multi-media experience. Engulfed by a beehive of activity and noisy agitation, one becomes increasingly aware of the fact that not even for a moment does a detail of his surroundings escape Fred’s keen head.
Despite the steady bombardment of super-rock and Sixth Avenue traffic, not being the most conducive backdrop to a conversation, the man’s innate tranquility made up for it all.
EVO - Fred, could you describe to me your current project?
M - I am working on a TV set.
EVO - I have seen your last film, which I consider to be the best animated collage that I have ever seen.
M - I agree, it’s the best that I have seen.
EVO - You started to shoot a new film last week. Do you have any concept or notions as to what you want to do? What is it all about and what do you have in mind?
M - Just to do another film. As far as the film itself is concerned - it will take care of itself.
EVO - Do you usually work without a plot or sequence?
M - I work from minute to minute.
EVO - Even Fellini, who works without a script, usually knows what he wants to do. What is it that you want to do?
M - Whatever happens from minute to minute - that’s what I want to do.
EVO - Are you experimenting? Is there a point that you wish to prove? Is it a concept or a dream that you desire to put on celluloid?
M - No. I just feel like I am working on a film. I am working on a film from day to day and that’s where the film is at. Everything is part of the film. Whatever I have done is part of the film. It is all going to make the film happen.
EVO - What are your thoughts about the film? What is your overall concept?
M - I just to want to make a film. I am working my film all the time. How I am making it is however I am. Sitting here talking to you -it is still a film that I am making an therefore everything that happens will be in it. I am ALWAYS working on my film. THIS IS A FILM.
EVO - When I walked into your studio I noticed three walls full of prizes that were given to you. What were they for? What does your past work consist on [sic]? Features, Commercial, What?
M - Short films and commercials. All my work relates to what I want to do now. I want to make a good film and I need money to make it with.
EVO - Are you still involved with commercials?
M - I am getting into it again.
EVO - Are any of your commercial currently shown on TV?
M - One, for the Beneficial Finance Co. It really doesn’t matter. What matters is what I am doing today.
EVO - Understood. YOU are making a FILM. The reason I asked you about your past work is because I want to find out what you are doing NOW.
M - I am concerned ONLY with what I am doing NOW. The film is what I am doing. Now what is it all going to be about? O.K. Let me see if I can figure it out. If I’d start making a film with you right now, it would give you an idea. I am starting with myself and move ahead. But somehow or other I would have to control it.
EVO - Are you usually in control of your creative energies and efforts? Do you try to retain control over your material?
M - Like I am now -Yes. I come close to that. I like to feel I am in control because then I can make sense of it. It’s just like everything else, one does their closest thing. Just do what you do. That’s what counts.
Now the FILM is about the GIRL. I don’t know why it is about a girl. It just happens to be about a girl. A study of today’s human being. When she comes in we’ll know her.
EVO - I have seen a large number of girls parading in here trying to land the part. It seems that none has hit you as yet. Is that correct?
M - That isn’t true. They all have something.
EVO - Are you trying to establish a composite image of today’s girl?
M - I don’t know. As long as it is a nice girl.
EVO - Do you limit yourself in Age?
M - No.
EVO - Have you used many women in your commercials?
M - Not too many.
EVO - Do you feel that your past work was the thing you had to to [sic] do in order to be at the point that you are at now?
M - Only when you succeed as an artist you know. Let me tell you. Right now I know that I am experimenting with that box (TV console0. That’s the thing I am concerned with now. I can’t really describe it, but what’s going to be in the movie is coming out of that box. It’s all layers of paint added every day. I think the whole thing out every day. It just keeps changing. The set itself does not work but just changes every day. By me. It’s one constant change I want to do something and it’s getting to be interesting. It’s starting to work out somehow. I feel it’s going to come to a point where it will probably just glow. There are so many layers and it will look like it’s on all the time. I am trying to say what I can within that glow. So I create my own little glow. A living thing made out of art. I concern myself with creating real matter out of art. It lives, somehow.
EVO - Do you paint?
M - That’s what I am doing -painting.
EVO - Do you have any art school training?
M - Yes, I have had some training. I went to art school in New Bedford and in New York. I dug what was happening here and got turned on by the city. this town was full of excitement. The city really turns me on.
EVO - Haw [sic] long have you been in New York?
(continued on Page 16)
M - Maybe 18, maybe 20 years. I am not sure.
EVO - Do you live in the city?
M - No, I live in New Jersey.
EVO - Do you have a family?
M - Yes. Wife and two children.
EVO - How do you relate to your fellow human beings? Do you find it easier to communicate via film rather than on a personal basis?
M - Yeah, I guess so. That’s my language. That’s the way I talk.
EVO - What I saw of your communications struck me as being extremely eloquent. The sensible, straight forward way in which you massage your audience is remarkable. Technically I don’t know much about films but I am aware of intercommunication. To me it was an I and Thou entity unto itself.
M - It’s a feeling, a real thing. That’s the thing about the sculpture, the box. It almost lives and I don’t know if it can be done on film. Yet it all comes from the machine.
EVO - Remember that what you feed into the machine is what comes through. I think that you succeeded very well in the film I saw. That’s why I called it animated collage rather than photomontage. You thing is alive and it moves.
M - That that’s always there. Very spiritual.
EVO - And very visual too.
M - I was trying to evoke audience participation. A Ying and Yang kind of thing but then who knows?
EVO - What do you think?
M - I don’t know. Whatever it is, it’s probably the secret of life.
EVO - Are you trying to find the secret of life?
M - YYYEEEAAHHH. I guess so, I don’t know. Maybe it’s better just to live. Just to do what you are doing. I mean something monotonous has to be next to something interesting to make it interesting.
EVO - How long have you been turning on?
M - 13 years.
EVO - Have you ever had hallucinogenics?
M - No. I want to do it without psychedelic drugs. I like to make interesting journeys. I don’t like instant journeys. I am just an artist working on his thing.
EVO - Are you apprehensive about psychedelic drugs?
M - No. I believe in myself.
EVO - Do you believe in God?
M - Yeah. I believe in God. I believe God is YOURSELF. I do things from day to day. Who knows, one of these days I may even take a trip. I turn on to my work. I am constantly working. Right now I don’t have time for a trip.
EVO - Do you work well with people?
M - Yes, I think so, I let people do whatever the hell they want to do.
EVO - Do you maintain control over your thing?
M - I don’t know if I maintain control anything. I just talk to the people that work with me. They can all do what they want.
EVO - And all relating to a central idea.
M - Yes. I believe in what they believe in. We believe in the same things. We just express it in our different ways. The big problem today is finding a way to communicate a feeling and be understood.
EVO - Have you experiences the frustation [sic] of being misunderstood.
M - Yes but feelings change through participation.
EVO - When did you experience the big changes in your life. The change in your consciousness?
M - Two years ago.
EVO - How old are you?
M - 40- could be 41. I am at a point where I want to participate. I feel things are together now and what will come out of it will be just love and beauty.
EVO - Are you interested in what’s happening on the outside, like the political scene?
M - Political scenes don’t change that often. It’s the same all the time. It is a difficult subject to talk about because every thing else is moving so fast. It is incredible how long it takes till one reaches some sort of an understanding. I don’t really know what I am talking about. Trying to defend it all isn’t easy.
EVO - What are you trying to defend.
M - Myself. What I do and peoples right to participate.
EVO - You are involved because your work expresses what’s happening.
M - That was what was happening when I made the film. What was happening to me. What’s happening to me today is an entirely different story. It’s happening now from day to day. In my films I on exactly what I feel.
EVO - You certainly came through. After I saw your film I came away with the distinct impression that I have known you for a long time.
M - Because I did exactly what I wanted to do so. That’s why. I hope I succeed again. The only way to find out is to continue making films. One should be able to find someone with a lot of money who just gives it to you and [page] says “Go ahead and do with it whatever you want.” Everyone says it is impossible. I don’t believe that. Someone will see a good film and say “Here is the money, go ahead.”
EVO - Has that happened to you?
M - It’s getting closer and closer.
EVO - How do you support yourself while doing what you are doing?
M - We make T. V. commercials.
EVO - In your TV work -do you have control over your material?
M - Yes, we don’t let anyone hold us back because we work together.
EVO - Do you feel that you succeeded in bridging the gap between your commercials and your films?
M - Yes, I have definitely done that. I think it is a good think. In our case we have had complete freedom in the production of our commercials. What you do with that is a different story again. You can take it and put [sic] You have to create and put in it what you feel.
EVO - Do you have any interference from your clients?
M - Not interference. Just communication. People that come here want a great job. They know what they are coming for and what they come for we do. They come for what we do.
EVO - Do you believe that like in some Scandinavia countries nudity will finally be used in commercials? Do you think that the sanctimonious taboos will finally be broken on the TV screen.
M - Sure, without any doubt. If anything is moving ahead it will be television. The saying “Whoever controls TV controls the world” is correct. So is McLuhan.
EVO - I think Nixon’s election proved that point.
M - Well, I don’t know about that guy. Who knows where evil lies? TV can be used for good and for bad. For many it is their only [continued on Page 23] contact with outside. I feel that I am participating at this point. I feel like I am directing people. I would like just to participate but someone has to make the film. Therefore I direct people.
EVO- That’s how things are. There are those who direct and those who are being directed and as long as this pattern interchanges -that’s what freedom is.
M - Right, but all I want to do now is work on piece over there (TV).
EVO - Do you think you intimidate people?
M - Maybe.
EVO - Do you have a desire to convert and change people to your own state of happiness?
M - I just want to convert myself. I feel that things are going my way.
EVO - How much time do you spend in your studio.
M - Most of my life.
EVO - Do you find that you dual existence - here with your work and in New Jersey with your family conflict with each other?
M - No trouble at all. I have a beautiful wife and beautiful children and I enjoy every minute with them. You are what you are and everything seem to come out right.
EVO - Do you do your own photography?
M - Yes, except the film I am working on now. This is the first time I employed a film crew. I feel like participating with other people. This way I feel that I am communicating.
Wilson Picket blasts Mustang Sally all over the place when the commotion finally died somehow, I asked my last question: “In summation Fred, what is happening?”
M - I think participation is the most important thing that’s happening. I goes on every day. It’s happening to more and more people and that in the end is what really matters.
